Air Canada Departure

[CAY102- Jon]

Hey There,

Well, some of you (those who flew into or out of MWCR yesterday) may have experienced the pretty lousy weather we had. Visibility was down to half a mile for a good while, with large squalls moving through, winds were 210@20knts gusting to 26knts for quite some time, and this Air Canada bravely decided to depart 26 for it's journey back to Toronto, I was quite perplexed the answer was "Yes, we are able to depart" to the question "Would you like to hold in position for the weather to move through, or are you able to depart?"

Here we are, keep in mind, this was taken from outside, no fogged lense or glass, 100% rain and air moisture:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5714/acabl.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/acabl.jpg/)

Seen above is the rotation at Bravo for runway 26, as soon as they were airborn they were tossed around like a twotter in a cloud and out of site before you knew it.

Neat stuff, CAY107 arriving in from Miami also went missed once and held for 30 minutes due weather, never a dull moment!

[CAY017-Aharon]

I have been to Caribbean many many many times and do not remember see such that thick fog like this pic!!!!

But I am not surprised that Air Canada pilots wanted to take off. I took off from KLGA in same heavy foggy conditions although not with strong winds. I am guessing radar technology was big help and there was no plane traffic around MWCR.

The main reason I am not surprised about Air Canada pilots wanting to take off is that Air Canada pilot have something in common with Finnair and Alaska Airline pilots. Coming from countries where extremely severe arctic winter conditions are common, the Air Canada, Alaska Airlines and Finnair pilots are well adapted and well trained to flying in such severe weather conditions.

In other words, to Finnair or Alaska Airlines or Air Canada pilots, this weather condition that you mentioned would be nothing to them as if this was weather with zero wind speeds:):):) I am sure Air Canada pilots would rather take this weather than winter Canadian weather.

Try landing or take off in 737 on Deadhorse airport in Alaska in winter and you will understand.

WHAT SURPRISED ME is that I thought any airport control tower has right to refuse to let planes take off. Am I missing something?? I thought airport tower controllers have authority to override pilots' request for take off??

Aharon

[CAY165 - Liam]

hmmm

[CAY009- Gerome]

WOW thats some scary shytsurprise

[CAY420- Jeremy]

That looks like fun weather! w00t

[Ricardo_LatinVFR]

Hey There,

Well, some of you (those who flew into or out of MWCR yesterday) may have experienced the pretty lousy weather we had. Visibility was down to half a mile for a good while, with large squalls moving through, winds were 210@20knts gusting to 26knts for quite some time, and this Air Canada bravely decided to depart 26 for it's journey back to Toronto, I was quite perplexed the answer was "Yes, we are able to depart" to the question "Would you like to hold in position for the weather to move through, or are you able to depart?"

Here we are, keep in mind, this was taken from outside, no fogged lense or glass, 100% rain and air moisture:

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5714/acabl.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/acabl.jpg/)

Seen above is the rotation at Bravo for runway 26, as soon as they were airborn they were tossed around like a twotter in a cloud and out of site before you knew it.

Neat stuff, CAY107 arriving in from Miami also went missed once and held for 30 minutes due weather, never a dull moment!

I am sudden to ask my self some, "if" questions. I am not a pilot, but what IF they had an engine failure and needed to return back to MWCR? let us say that MWCR hasn't an ILS, so basically in those conditions which obviously would point to some sort of very sophisticated approach, would a pilot seriously take off the table the premise of anything wrong occurring after departure?

I am a passenger in that flight and I would have asked some serious questions to the crew.

[CAY029- Pierre]

Ricardo: It does have a VOR, so I guess that's how they'd make it in, and using charts.

WOW Jon, that's just insanely foggy! I don't think I've seen anything like it, and I live in Maryland! ohmy

And in the Caribbean?! Quite unusual isn't it?

Haha, same weather today, huh? Stunning stuff.

[CAY253- Guy]

Amazing stuff for Cayman! Are you sure that's fog? Often in Cayman it rains so hard that it is a complete washout like that and you can't see a thing. Very scary on a boat, you lose all sense of direction and you only have a GPS to guide you if you're lucky!

You could always divert to the Brac, if it is a squall then it is focused in a small area, the Brac would most likely be clear if something went wrong.

[Ricardo_LatinVFR]

Ricardo: It does have a VOR, so I guess that's how they'd make it in, and using charts.

WOW Jon, that's just insanely foggy! I don't think I've seen anything like it, and I live in Maryland! ohmy

And in the Caribbean?! Quite unusual isn't it?

Haha, same weather today, huh? Stunning stuff.


Yes but, isn't a VOR approach a non-precise approach. Those are CAT I or CAT II conditions, I am not too familiar with that but to accomplish a successful landing with only VOR to me it seems a bit risky, and CAY107 proved that VOR approach is not too helpful, they went around also. But as I said, I am not a pilot. hmmm

[CAY792-William]

Well I have seen this kind of rain in person and its not fun at all! doing an inspection in that kind of weather is not fun!
I have seen BA come in in this kind of weather and didnt see the plane till he popped out of the rain about 500 ft from the threshold! Did such a great job to that he was able to vacate on Delta!

This is not FOG. this is just torrential rain! We dont get FOG in the tropics. Its not the right conditions.

As for the Engine failure discussion. Its very likely that the plane would be able to get back down into MWCR, but he would probably perform an RNAV app as this would allow the captain to get an more accurate approach than the VOR/DME. It would not be his first choice tho! Any captain would try to divert to either MWCB or if he was able to, MKJS! Still not the best weather for flying!

I wonder tho, would an ILS help in an engine failure? Yes the captain would have Vertical Guidance but i beleive that autoland would not work in this situation due to the engine failure.

It does look like if there was an ILS, it would have to be close to CAT III tho! RVR must be around 250m!

Nice shot tho Jon! Hope you didnt get drenched in trying to capture this!

[CAY792-William]

WHAT SURPRISED ME is that I thought any airport control tower has right to refuse to let planes take off. Am I missing something?? I thought airport tower controllers have authority to override pilots' request for take off??

Aharon
The only time a ATC controller can deny a takeoff is if there is a safety related issue that would cause a collision with either another aircraft or an obstruction. In this weather, the controller did the right thing and asked if the pilot wanted to wait it out a bit to see what was happening, but in the end its the pilot who basically takes the responsibility of the departure. Providing that there was no Traffic in the area that could effect the Air Canada, then its pilots wish to take off, let him take off!

Now if there was a crash, the ATC may get some heat but he hasnt got the right to refuse an IFR departure due to meteorological conditions.


This weather is nasty for any pilot. Remember that Air Canada, Alaskan Airlines and Finnar, normally are flying their commercial jets into airports that are equipped with an ILS. this gives the pilots a lot more guidance than that at MWCR's VOR. As Ricardo has stated MWCR only has Non-precision approaches making this a bit tricky for the pilots in the conditions, and why CAY107 did a missed approach.

However, Departures is a different story. All you have to do is get up and go! No hard work in that! Ok its gonna be wet but still, better to get up and out rather than sit on the ground and chew up the crews hours as then they aint going anywhere if they expire!

[CAY017-Aharon]

This is not FOG. this is just torrential rain! We dont get FOG in the tropics. Its not the right conditions.

That explains my original statement that I had never seen a single fog on many trips to Caribbean!!

Aharon

[CAY034- Gareth]

I have been to Caribbean many many many times and do not remember see such that thick fog like this pic!!!!

Aharon, let me correct you on that thought.

The Cayman Islands does not have any fog, this was just heavy rain due to some scattered thunderstorms during a few fronts and tropical waves. It is because of these storms the visibility is reduced alot at times.

[CAY600- Romario]

That morning the weather was NOTHING like that. It was drizzling but nothing like this! Wow, shows how the weather can change dramatically :O