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Thread: Personal Perspective of DENVER LIVE!! vatsim event

  1. #1

    Personal Perspective of DENVER LIVE!! vatsim event

    Shalom and greetings all my pals,

    Before I start telling all of you about DENVER LIVE!! vatsim event, I would like to thank AGAIN Jon for going through trouble to get official VAFS4 route from KLAS to KDEN back to KLAS. This shows you how great a VA owner is especially Jon always gives individual attention and assistance to each of all of his pilots!!!

    Now about DENVER LIVE!! event, there were about 10 KDEN controllers on duty and the event, despite hundreds of planes, was better organized than the ATLANTA LIVE!! event!! In the Atlanta event, the KATL controllers lost position of my plane and did not do proper job coordinating my plane which was flying around KATL aimlessly through crowded airspace full of many planes until one of KATL controllers asked me what my destination was!!! shesshh

    In DENVER LIVE!!! event, the KDEN controllers coordinated the planes superbly and spaced each plane from each other properly. When I was approaching KDEN runway during KLAS to KDEN flight, I could see a plane ahead of me landing and exiting few seconds before I landed which was very cool.

    This event raised an interesting question that I hope any Vatsim expert would be able to answer. I could not figure out what it was.

    When I was flying at FL360 about 15 minutes away from KDEN, KDEN controller told me "hold your position and make right turn every 5 mile leg"

    What does it mean????? Does it mean he or she wanted me to make circle around at same altitude using right turn to circle???

    I asked for clarification but got no reply. So I pmed to one of the KDEN controllers asking what it meant. The reply was that Do not worry. The airport airspace was crowded but now we could space each plane apart so you can resume normal flight path"

    The landing was smooth and the KDEN terminals were full of planes!!! I took screenshots but realized I pressed wrong buttons meaning I lost all screenshots during rwy approach and taxiing!!

    On the return trip was more comic. When I landed on KDEN and taxied to terminal to dock to the gate next to a jumbo jet not knowing that plane was CAY126 by the name of Llyod Dennis!!! And we agreed that we should fly back to KLAS. This caused more confusion to all KDEN controllers!!!! The controllers issued orders or instructions to CAY126 that were supposed to go to me and the other orders or instructions to me that were supposed to go to CAY126!! In other words, the KDEN controllers mixed us up!!! I had to say I AM CAY017, not CAY126. CAY126 had to say "this is for CAY17, not for me"

    Funny, isn't it?

    Also more funny thing was that I thought CAY126 was Alistar Bird who is also authorized Vatsim controller. I noticed on SQWK box text communication that CAY126 got rwy 25 assignment for take off and few seconds I got same rwy assignment. So assuming that CAY126 is Vatsim expert, I followed his plane only to find out getting message from KDEN controllers telling me I was taxiing wrong way in opposite way. I was baffled because I know NO vatsim controller would taxi wrong way to any runway. So I looked up at CAY126's name only to find out it was Llyod Dennis, not Alistar Bird.

    Pretty funny ?

    So I corrected my taxi and took off from rwy 25 while he corrected his taxi direction and took off few moments later.

    CAY126 and I chatted a lot during return flight from KDEN to KLAS. I suggested that he should take rwy 25R and I should take rwy 25L so that we could do super cool stimulationous landing on KLAS. Unfortunately SQWK box froze and crashed my FSX/VAFS4, forcing me to return to FSX to find myself 5 minutes behind his plane and there went the chance of exciting landing!!!

    Here is interesting perspective of super endurance DENVER LIVE!! event

    Aharon

    Flew 17 relief flights to MTPP, 5 relief flights to Chile, 7 relief flights to MYNN, 5 relief flights to NZCH, 7 relief flights to Japan, 4 relief flights to NJ via KPHL/KACY, 5 relief flights to RPVM/RPVA, and 4 relief flights to TDPD

  2. #2
    CAY505- Tim Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CAY017-Aharon View Post
    When I was flying at FL360 about 15 minutes away from KDEN, KDEN controller told me "hold your position and make right turn every 5 mile leg"

    What does it mean????? Does it mean he or she wanted me to make circle around at same altitude using right turn to circle???
    It means to enter a hold using your present position as the holding fix, right hand turns in the pattern, 5 mile legs inbound and outbound.

    So, if you were 40 DME from the DEN VOR, you would use your current heading (call it 050 degrees) as the inbound course and set the holding fix at 40 DME from DEN. You would make a right hand turn to the reciprocal heading (230 degrees) and fly until you were 45 DME from DEN. From there, make your right turn inbound to your original heading (50 degrees)and when you roll wings level, you should be approximately at 45 DME. Repeat until released from the holding pattern. Maintain your assigned altitude in the hold until cleared to a different altitude.

    They usually only issue a cleareance like that when a controller is getting behind or there is something unusual going on up ahead. Normally they will have you enter a published holding pattern with the only deviaiton being the leg length inbound and outbound.
    Last edited by CAY505- Tim; 07-19-2009 at 06:44 PM.

  3. #3
    Although I am having hard time understanding your explanation, thanks for explanations anyway, Tim

    Aharon

    Flew 17 relief flights to MTPP, 5 relief flights to Chile, 7 relief flights to MYNN, 5 relief flights to NZCH, 7 relief flights to Japan, 4 relief flights to NJ via KPHL/KACY, 5 relief flights to RPVM/RPVA, and 4 relief flights to TDPD

  4. #4
    CAY505- Tim Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CAY017-Aharon View Post
    Although I am having hard time understanding your explanation, thanks for explanations anyway, Tim

    Aharon
    Well, if your not familiar with holding patterns, it will not make much sense.

    Try this as a holding pattern primer, this should clear it up for you.

    http://pilotsweb.com/train/pattern.htm

  5. #5
    Thanks for useful hyperlink, Tim

    That link confirmed my theory that KDEN controllers wanted me to circle around at the same altitude!!!

    race track shaped circle mmmmmmmmmm I guess the controllers were too busy to tell me what headings in order to start hold your position and make right turn every 5 mile leg.

    When he or she said every 5 mile leg, did he or she mean 5 nautical mile per outbound and inbound leg before making 180 degree turn?

    And do I have to let controllers know every time that I am making 180 degree after completing inbound or outboud leg or are they keep tracking of that?

    Aharon

    Flew 17 relief flights to MTPP, 5 relief flights to Chile, 7 relief flights to MYNN, 5 relief flights to NZCH, 7 relief flights to Japan, 4 relief flights to NJ via KPHL/KACY, 5 relief flights to RPVM/RPVA, and 4 relief flights to TDPD

  6. #6
    CAY505- Tim Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CAY017-Aharon View Post

    race track shaped circle mmmmmmmmmm I guess the controllers were too busy to tell me what headings in order to start hold your position and make right turn every 5 mile leg.

    When he or she said every 5 mile leg, did he or she mean 5 nautical mile per outbound and inbound leg before making 180 degree turn?

    And do I have to let controllers know every time that I am making 180 degree after completing inbound or outboud leg or are they keep tracking of that?

    Aharon
    When told to hold at your present position, your current heading will be the inbound heading, the outbound will be the reciprocal heading.

    Yes, when given a leg distance, that is the length of your outbound and inbound legs. Otherwise it is time based.

    When told to hold, you do not need to advise on the turns, they are expecting you to maintain the hold until they contact you or in event of a comm failure, depart the hold at the EFC Time.

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